Engineers 2.1 Beta - findings so far

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Re: Engineers 2.1 Beta - findings so far

Postby JohnLuke » Sat May 14, 2016 9:47 am

Phillipus wrote:I found a video by someone (not me) where you can see pretty much what the NPC AI is like now. Somehow the NPCs all manage to stay out of the firing line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvH7vPZULc4


I hadn't played with the beta this week due to RL commitments and my frustrations with the first beta 2.1 where the NPC's ran like hell once you took their shields down. (VERY frustrating!) After seeing this video, I fired up beta 2.1 version 4 and went into a High-RES with the Vette. I only ran in there for about 20-30 minutes, and did not have as hard of a time killing NPC's as the commander in the video. I did have an Eagle take my shields down to one ring since I couldn't get him in my sites, but the other ships I battled with weren't that bad.

Here are some examples:
(if you have audio on you'll know when I go in and out of FA off and switch pips.)

Please.... no laughing at my screw-ups! :P :oops:

Deadly Asp kill:
https://youtu.be/txkvCiSLGE0

Elite Vulture kill: (my shields were low from a previous kill and I used a SCB part way through the video clip)
https://youtu.be/OCDWB5YY0Nw

Dangerous FDL kill:
https://youtu.be/USjFIFbaE9E

Each of these kills took about a minute or so. Not 3 minutes like in the video link that Phillipus shared with us.

Loriath wrote:
We have had it easy. <snipped>

Elite is finally getting Dangerous.


I completely agree with everything that Loriath said. Combat (and surviving trade runs without incident) has been easy in the game, especially for those fortunate enough to have large A rated ships. When I was finishing my Elite combat grind in a CNB, I was killing 20-30-40 Deadly and Elite ships per hour with hardly a scratch. Is that realistic? I say no, but it was fun. :evil: High ranking ships shouldn't be that easy to kill! Someone shouldn't be able to 'grind' in a combat area for 10-12 hours and get finish off 20% of his Deadly rank. It should be more challenging to hit Elite, IMO.

My thoughts based on betas 2.1 ver 4.... FD has come a long way since beta 2.1 ver 1. The NPC's are certainly tougher than 1.5/2.0 but a lot more managable now than in prior beta builds. Who knows what the next version will bring. IMO, if you are flying solo and want to work a RES, take a FAS or FDL and run a High RES to get some help from the cops. Large ships (Vette, Conda, Cutter) will perform best in **organized** wings, to keep NPC's off of each other's backs and should do well in a Haz-RES.

I doubt that RES hunting will ever be the cash cow that it was before 2.1. But who knows.... with the right engineering mods and some practice, I could be wrong! :roll:
-JL

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Re: Engineers 2.1 Beta - findings so far

Postby charlie2alpha » Sat May 14, 2016 9:52 am

I am not against removing the cash cow element from BH, after all trade is supposed to be cash cow. What I am against is losing game balance. I do not want to see Elite becoming a game only for the devoted long term player, losing completely the casual element. And all these new "arm races" and grinds for it start to remind me too much my old grinds when I was still playing MMORPGs. Which I swore to never touch again, because I ended up having no life ( I'm the OCD type...).
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Re: Engineers 2.1 Beta - findings so far

Postby Xebeth » Sat May 14, 2016 10:08 am

JohnLuke wrote:<snip>


Thanks for posting those, that's the first proper comparison I've seen and really it looked fine, in fact I've seen more slippery ships in 2.0, looks like Deadly performs more or less where Elite currently is, and that FDL was a bit of a walkover if anything.

I wonder how much of this is just internet doomsayers, I remember the last time they upped the AI performance people rushed to the forum to complain it was too hard and frankly I didn't notice any significant difference.

One thing that does spring to mind however, is that macros for pip management would be useful in the future.

Would you mind posting your load out?
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Re: Engineers 2.1 Beta - findings so far

Postby charlie2alpha » Sat May 14, 2016 10:26 am

Xebeth wrote:
JohnLuke wrote:<snip>


Thanks for posting those, that's the first proper comparison I've seen and really it looked fine, in fact I've seen more slippery ships in 2.0, looks like Deadly performs more or less where Elite currently is, and that FDL was a bit of a walkover if anything.

I wonder how much of this is just internet doomsayers, I remember the last time they upped the AI performance people rushed to the forum to complain it was too hard and frankly I didn't notice any significant difference.

One thing that does spring to mind however, is that macros for pip management would be useful in the future.

Would you mind posting your load out?

I have to admit, JL's videos seem more normal... I think I should probably just wait for the release and try it myself.
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Re: Engineers 2.1 Beta - findings so far

Postby Dudley » Sat May 14, 2016 10:39 am

Well.. I must say, I'm really looking forward to 2.1 :D
Looks like a hell of a challenge :D

I foresee.. *stares in to crystal ball*... more wing play... dammit, re-buy screen.. "Dawg..leave your tail alone and come and cover my arse.."
.."Where's Dawg?.. what's he doing in that system..?" *whistle*.."we're over here..!!".. "use the chaff, Dawg.. use the chaff.." :roll: .."run away, Dawg..NOT THAT WAY!!"

Ah, yes - can't wait.. :D
As a tribute to Tor, my CMDR has small feet too! o7 Dawg

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Re: Engineers 2.1 Beta - findings so far

Postby Cmdr Kharma » Sat May 14, 2016 11:02 am

Loriath wrote:We had a long conversation on TS last night about the new AI fights.

<Snip>

Elite is finally getting Dangerous.


Hookers and blow......

:D
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Re: Engineers 2.1 Beta - findings so far

Postby JohnLuke » Sat May 14, 2016 11:07 am

Xebeth wrote:Thanks for posting those, that's the first proper comparison I've seen and really it looked fine, in fact I've seen more slippery ships in 2.0, looks like Deadly performs more or less where Elite currently is, and that FDL was a bit of a walkover if anything.
<snip>
Would you mind posting your load out?


Glad to help! :D The NPC's flying style has changed quite a bit during the beta releases from what they were on the first beta. They seem to be much more manageable now, but.... without a doubt.... take longer to kill with a LOT more time spent turning around to get on target. Depending on how they are tweaked before 2.1 is released, a few turrets on the big ships may not be a bad idea. And wings are an even better idea. ;)

Here is my 2.0 loadout. Coriolis isn't setup with Beta builds, so these items are different:

I have 2 huge multi-cannons (love 'em!) in place of the two huge cannons.
The multi's seem to pull more power than the cannons in 2.0, so I had to eliminate one SB for power management reasons. I added a 2nd HSL in place of a SB and keep it turned off until the first one is exhausted. BTW, HSL hold 3 charges now, not 4 like in 2.0.
-JL

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Re: Engineers 2.1 Beta - findings so far

Postby Cmdr Kharma » Sat May 14, 2016 11:15 am

JohnLuke wrote:Each of these kills took about a minute or so. Not 3 minutes like in the video link that Phillipus shared with us.


In beta 3 took on an FDL....Took me almost 45 Mins to take him down.....Everytime his shields went he legged it with me getting about 5% hull damage on him......

Really glad this has changed in beta 4......

Although combat just got VERY interesting.....

Beta 4......I am actually considering that I'm shit in combat.....

A whole new bunch of lessons for me to learn....Lost 2 FDL's last night......

Mind you It was 03:00 and I was quite pissed......

To Me.....In it's current form beta 2.1 is like a new game......

Throw away what you know......And embrace/enjoy the challenge......

:D
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Re: Engineers 2.1 Beta - findings so far

Postby Cmdr Kharma » Sat May 14, 2016 12:15 pm

Walter wrote:Couldn't agree more (especially over Kharma's nether regions).



Now....Now many times Walter have I told you to stop thinking about my nether regions ?......

I thought after the last counselling session you had and with the new tablets that was all "behind" you......

:D
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Re: Engineers 2.1 Beta - findings so far

Postby Walter » Sat May 14, 2016 12:40 pm

Cmdr Kharma wrote:
Walter wrote:Couldn't agree more (especially over Kharma's nether regions).



Now....Now many times Walter have I told you to stop thinking about my nether regions ?......

I thought after the last counselling session you had and with the new tablets that was all "behind" you......

:D

Sorry, Kharma. I just spent too long in the arse end of the galaxy.
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