Care for a Wormhole, Anyone?

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Roger Wilco Jr
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Care for a Wormhole, Anyone?

Postby Roger Wilco Jr » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:52 pm

After taking weeks to travel out the the core and back, I'm thinking it would really be nice to have a faster way of getting around the galaxy. This would really be useful if, let's say, an alien race started attacking humanity, and their home system was tens of thousands of light years away. Instead of taking weeks or months to travel there, you could just drop into a wormhole (or 10) and get there in a reasonable time (for a game).

This might be a use for all those black holes scattered around the galaxy. You could fly into one and pop out at another. And maybe you could use the big one at the core to jump between galaxies. Now, not just anyone could do this. It would require very specialized and expensive equipment, and maybe even a special class of ship. And to get this equipment, you would need the rank of Elite in exploration.

Or, with planetary landings coming, maybe we can discover some type of ancient alien artifacts, or stargates, scattered throughout the galaxy. These could even be newly discovered on planets or moons in known systems. Of course, these would have to be pretty big to allow ships, and especially capital ships, to pass through them. Now that, imho, would be pretty cool.

However they work, one thing is for sure - if they are located in controlled space, then the governments will be in control of them. They could limit who can use them and they charge fees. These would be known routes and would be reasonably safe. But I suppose you could also take your chances by trying out unexplored routes or discovering new stargates on unexplored planets. These would offer huge payouts but with very high risks.

I suppose another option would be to build our own system of jump gates, ala Babylon 5 style. That might not be so bad for jumping around controlled space, but how would you build a gate 40,000 LY away? That would take some serious time, credits, and effort. I think I'd rather rely on network of black holes or discovering ancient stargates.

Regardless of how it's done, and with a little more thought, I could see some very interesting game-play and interactions developing around these wormholes - add a little depth to the game. Anyway, I'd be curious about your thoughts and ideas. And I suppose this may not be an original idea, and may have already been discussed here or elsewhere, but it is a fresh thought for me, inspired by thousands of 32LY jumps to the core and back. ;)
It's time to give this another go.

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Re: Care for a Wormhole, Anyone?

Postby Corium » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:21 pm

If I'm not mistaken, Frontier ( namely Braben Himself ) has openly discussed the theory of wormholes and the overall outcome of such discussions was a resounding "No".

Though your idea has some credit and thought placed behind it, it just doesn't fit in with the idea that lies at Elite's core. Not to mention the fact that with the galaxy being on a 1-1 scale and as close to scientifically accurate as possible, the idea of dipping -into- a Black Hole is far beyond the scope of reason.

Finally, causing space travel to become something of a sideshow ( making a 10,000ly journey only take maybe an hour total ) would defeat Braben's purpose of Scale in the game.

" The universe is massive, beyond comprehension. Our galaxy is a mere atom within the universe, and we barely exist in comparison."
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Re: Care for a Wormhole, Anyone?

Postby TorTorden » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:26 pm

Wormholes?
What do you think regular hyperjump is?
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Re: Care for a Wormhole, Anyone?

Postby Corium » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:29 pm

Wasn't the idea of the FSD similar to that of the "warp drive" that's being worked on in the science community? It simply compresses space/time infront of it and decompresses it behind the craft?
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Re: Care for a Wormhole, Anyone?

Postby TorTorden » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:36 pm

That would be FSD cruise, the one we use inside a system.
A hyperjump smells like a wormhole, looks like a wormhole (OK as much as it should in a videogame), and punches through vast distances of space like a wormhole.

As Shakespeare states, would not a rose by any other name smell as sweet?
Inow, if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck.
You can call it whatever you want, I'm having roast duck for dinner :D
Last edited by TorTorden on Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Care for a Wormhole, Anyone?

Postby Corium » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:38 pm

Good point. I'd gladly have a long winded scientific chit chat about space travel but sadly... it's too early for me.
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Re: Care for a Wormhole, Anyone?

Postby TorTorden » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:43 pm

Nah, I think gates and wormholes has been done to death in other games and sci-fi shows.
And FD rightly wants to be different, not so much an argument of theoretical astro physics as much as semantics.
Something will be happening with this I'm sure, but from what I remember FD said their roadmap wouldn't have anything happen with thargoids for at least another few years, at the least.
But I could always be very wrong with this as I might be with all things I post.
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Re: Care for a Wormhole, Anyone?

Postby Roger Wilco Jr » Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:39 pm

Corium wrote:If I'm not mistaken, Frontier ( namely Braben Himself ) has openly discussed the theory of wormholes and the overall outcome of such discussions was a resounding "No".

TorTorden wrote:Wormholes?
What do you think regular hyperjump is?

LOL! - you may both be right. Although they call it a hyperspace jump, or Witchspace originally, it is really more like a wormhole, although with multiple destinations. It really doesn't resemble hyperspace the way it is normally described in sci-fi.


Corium wrote:Though your idea has some credit and thought placed behind it, it just doesn't fit in with the idea that lies at Elite's core. Not to mention the fact that with the galaxy being on a 1-1 scale and as close to scientifically accurate as possible, the idea of dipping -into- a Black Hole is far beyond the scope of reason.

Well, thanks, I did give some thought, but just while I was writing it, and I'm not sure what lies at Elite's core. And nothing personal, but if you want to rule out dipping into black holes because the galaxy is as close to scientifically accurate as possible, then you can probably rule out a lot of what is going on in this game. For example:

I highly doubt there could be thousands of settled systems with multiple huge space stations an trillions of people all within about 1300 years. I think, the way things are going, it's more likely we'll fall into another dark ages where you'll get your head cut off just for thinking of going into space.

The acceleration of the ships would turn humans into a thin paste spread across the back of the ship, assuming the ship could even stay together.

Super cruise and hyperspace jumps are pure fantasies.

Shields? I don't think so. Lasers? Maybe. But I still think armor, cannons, and missiles are more realistic.

And that's just a few things, and I'm sure there are many more. So if those are okay, I don't see the big deal about black holes. I've read and seen lots of sci-fi about doing just that. I think it's more likely that a ship could enter a black hole and survive than be torn apart by tidal stresses (although it may get crushed).


Corium wrote:Finally, causing space travel to become something of a sideshow ( making a 10,000ly journey only take maybe an hour total ) would defeat Braben's purpose of Scale in the game.

Remember, if using black holes, you still need to travel to and between the black holes, so it will still take some time, but maybe just days instead of weeks or months. And if we found ancient stargates, maybe there is only 2 or 3 in settled space, and only a smattering throughout the galaxy (more rare than O-type stars), so it will still take a while to get places.


Anyway, I'd just be happy if someone invented a more efficient jump engine so you can hop hundreds of LY at a time instead of only tens of LY.
It's time to give this another go.

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Re: Care for a Wormhole, Anyone?

Postby TorTorden » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:49 pm

LOL! - you may both be right. Although they call it a hyperspace jump, or Witchspace originally, it is really more like a wormhole, although with multiple destinations. It really doesn't resemble hyperspace the way it is normally described in sci-fi.


From the Wikipedia article on wormholes.
► Show Spoiler


No matter what FD wants to call it, but as far as I see it, your FSD drive can generate a personal one-way Einstein-Rosen bridge minus the time-foolery. (for obvious ressons)
Farscape has some pretty cool thoughts on wormholes but the best graphical representation of wormholes and black holes are done in Interstellar.

For reasons unknown this targets the largest gravitational object in the vicinity of the exit point. A star.
I can say this, I had done thousands of jumps before that got mundane :) for game mechanics that's a good one.

As for traveling around the galaxy I think it's gotten small enough having drives propelling you 30-40ly in a matter of seconds (feathered anaconda gets 39.9) just a single light year is such a distance it make my mind boggle.
And the buckyball run to from Sol to Sagittarius A* where an anaconda made it in 8 hours and 43 minutes real time kind of proves it.
http://i.imgur.com/YSpUcOA.png

How pissed wouldn't you be when some punk two years from now spend 20 minutes going to sag a* and back again because of such a galaxy spanning device?

Now between galaxies and only between galaxies something like this would have to be introduced but we should be limited to the current drives when we get there.
Going to a* should really be an achievement, and I don't really like the idea of introducing mechanics that would cause to much inflation in the cost of moving around the galaxy.

Anyhoo that's my two cents and other 98 on the topic :D
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Re: Care for a Wormhole, Anyone?

Postby Roger Wilco Jr » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:20 pm

TorTorden wrote:As for traveling around the galaxy I think it's gotten small enough having drives propelling you 30-40ly in a matter of seconds (feathered anaconda gets 39.9) just a single light year is such a distance it make my mind boggle.
And the buckyball run to from Sol to Sagittarius A* where an anaconda made it in 8 hours and 43 minutes real time kind of proves it.

Yeah, I guess if you aren't stopping to scan then it won't take weeks to get around. However, it there ever is a war zone in the other half of the galaxy, it might be nice to have a way to have smaller fighters transported out there, maybe by the navy. Or have the navy move a station out there where you could buy ships ...


TorTorden wrote:How pissed wouldn't you be when some punk two years from now spend 20 minutes going to sag a* and back again because of such a galaxy spanning device?

I wrote:Now, not just anyone could do this. It would require very specialized and expensive equipment, and maybe even a special class of ship. And to get this equipment, you would need the rank of Elite in exploration.

The punk has got to put his time in first. ;)
It's time to give this another go.


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