Elite: Dangerous PvE - Mobius

I've put about 100 hours into this game, and I'm still enjoying myself. But I think that's enough time for a few little rants to build up, and if you'll forgive me the presumption, I'm going to post them in public.

First, oh mah garsh, this game is slow. It requires far too much time investment to get anywhere, and if ever a method is uncovered of shortening the time requirement, Frontier removes it. I doubt I'll ever experience the best of the later stages of play because I'm not committed to playing this game for 2000 hours.

The worst thing is that it seems like the player base is at least partially to blame for this. My perception is that some people want this to be a life simulator, where everything is as realistic as possible, and everyone has to struggle to get ahead because that's what life is like. I want a video game. Also, I want to move on to other video games at some point instead of pouring my entire soul into this one.

It doesn't help that much of the game is just not very interesting. The bubble is enormous but relentlessly generic. I long for a richer bubble. No station or planetary base has a story of any kind. All that changes from place to place are the station/base model and the services offered there. No mission has any sort of story, and never asks for anything interesting. Everything is relentlessly bland.

Combat is kinda fun, but I haven't gone all in on it yet. To really enjoy it, you either need a specialized ship that is good for nothing else (like an Eagle or a Vulture), in which case it's your second ship, or you need an extraordinarily expensive ship, like a Python or Anaconda, that does everything well. I haven't amassed enough assets to have a second well-heeled ship, and certainly, the big boats are out of reach. Keep in mind, I've been playing for 100 hours.

...which is why I became an explorer. Ironically, the randomly generated milky way is far more interesting to me than the presumably human-curated bubble. Traversing the functionally limitless galactic disc, you see a lot of things repeat, but you also see enough variety to keep it interesting, and the views you can find if you look are just stunning.

What I really want, what I long for, is for this game to be a successor to Escape Velocity and not Elite. I'm pretty sure EV was heavily inspired by Elite in the first place, but it made some changes that Elite: Dangerous sorely needs. Namely, that while it was still difficult to pull yourself out of shuttle poverty, it wasn't nearly so time consuming; the in-game universe was overflowing with personality and backstory; and there were lots of story mission threads, with mutually exclusive paths.

Set THAT game in this stunning space simulator engine. Work on THAT, instead of tirelessly searching for things that players were enjoying and nerfing them for no discernible reason other than that LIFE is HARD, so our games should be too!

Okay, now that's out of my system. Have a nice day.

You've joined a long queue.

FD is in a Catch-22 position. The game is more interesting and varied than it was, but the interest and variety has to be built on a foundation. If you spend all your time building foundations to make a perfect game - especially one with these proportions - you can't release it to generate a revenue stream that pays for the interest and variety.

But player pressure has been known to produce results.

Ooooo this should be fun. Get popcorn....

ballantos wrote:First, oh mah garsh, this game is slow. It requires far too much time investment to get anywhere, and if ever a method is uncovered of shortening the time requirement, Frontier removes it. I doubt I'll ever experience the best of the later stages of play because I'm not committed to playing this game for 2000 hours.

Slow? Really? So travelling 1000LY in less than an hour is slow? You do realise that it takes DAYS for us to get to the moon in Normal space, right? Ships fly in Meters Per second. 500 m/s is 1800 kph. Yep Slow. Or do you mean that you have to do missions from one place to another? Guess you have never played WoW, Witcher, or other games that have quests. THOSE are slow and drove me nuts.

The worst thing is that it seems like the player base is at least partially to blame for this. My perception is that some people want this to be a life simulator, where everything is as realistic as possible, and everyone has to struggle to get ahead because that's what life is like. I want a video game. Also, I want to move on to other video games at some point instead of pouring my entire soul into this one.

Guess you never looked at any of the plethora of info from David Braben about Elite or how much they love the Science they have used in the game. You do understand that the Galaxy in game is as close to 1:1 to the real thing that they can do, right?
If you think it is too much for what it is, then yes, head on to other games. I personally love Spider Solitaire to relax. Choose your own. You can come back later, no one says it has to be your life. We all have different times to play.

It doesn't help that much of the game is just not very interesting. The bubble is enormous but relentlessly generic. I long for a richer bubble. No station or planetary base has a story of any kind. All that changes from place to place are the station/base model and the services offered there. No mission has any sort of story, and never asks for anything interesting. Everything is relentlessly bland.

Wow, you say later that you liked Escape Velocity, which was based on the Elite Universe in the past, and yet claim that no station or planetary base has any story at all? (Realised you were talking about a different game not the Stories based in Elite further down so ignore this sentence)
Do you even read Bro?
TONNES of material about the history of Elite. Lets see... Games dating back to 1985, with sequels, Books. Tonnes of Galnet articles. Yep. No stations have any story... Oh wait, in game? Ah.. Ok, so the Factions have no history according to you. Don't tell them, they don't know it. They don't understand why Achenar is important. Nor do they perceive that the verge of war between the Federation and the Empire is happening and all the infighting inside the Empire is a problem. They have no clue as to why those stations in Sol are named as such. The history is In the game if you read the Galnet Articles and see each system has its own story. Just some are more important than others.

Combat is kinda fun, but I haven't gone all in on it yet. To really enjoy it, you either need a specialized ship that is good for nothing else (like an Eagle or a Vulture), in which case it's your second ship, or you need an extraordinarily expensive ship, like a Python or Anaconda, that does everything well. I haven't amassed enough assets to have a second well-heeled ship, and certainly, the big boats are out of reach. Keep in mind, I've been playing for 100 hours.

You have no idea how much combat can be done in a Cobra or Viper or Eagle. And you don't need a second "Specialized" ship to do it. Just because "you" have not figured it out in 100 hours does not mean it does not exist. I still remember the first time I Solo'd a Python in an Eagle. Damn good feeling. Even my Old Sidewinder managed to get a good chunk of money taking on Anacondas with the Cops help. Never managed to Solo one in the Sidewinder though.

What I really want, what I long for, is for this game to be a successor to Escape Velocity and not Elite. I'm pretty sure EV was heavily inspired by Elite in the first place, but it made some changes that Elite: Dangerous sorely needs. Namely, that while it was still difficult to pull yourself out of shuttle poverty, it wasn't nearly so time consuming; the in-game universe was overflowing with personality and backstory; and there were lots of story mission threads, with mutually exclusive paths.

It CAN'T be a successor to Escape Velocity because Escape Velocity was based on "ELITE" which THIS is the successor too. You have things backwards. Oh wait, you are talking about Escape Velocity the game.... I thought you were referring to Escape Velocity the Serialised Stories based in the Elite universe. My Mistake. No, this is based on the Original Elite Game. Maybe Contact the makers of Escape Velocity and see if they have plans to make a comeback. Stranger things have happened. No one expected Elite to come back. It happens.

I rode a Sidewinder to a Cobra in a Few evenings running missions. That Cobra got me over 100 Million credits before I went to another ship. A couple of hours a night and longer on weekends. Some people play less or more. And have more or less.

Set THAT game in this stunning space simulator engine. Work on THAT, instead of tirelessly searching for things that players were enjoying and nerfing them for no discernible reason other than that LIFE is HARD, so our games should be too!

Sorry Bro, this is Elite. It is what it is. Your game sounds good, but this aint that.

As I said earlier, you must have not played other games with Mission/Quests. They all grind. This is grind with Spaceships. Oh and when those other games see that things are being exploited to give advantages to a small bunch, they adjust the game, just as FD has. Your expectations for what Elite is may not be inline with what you want to do or enjoy doing. Thats cool Bro. I hate games Like COD and GTAV so to each their own.

But before you hit reply and post back to me, maybe take a look at what this game really allows you to do, and decide if that is what you really enjoy. There is a lot of crap in this game I hate. A lot I love. I have Played Daily since shortly after the launch. Only missed maybe 20-25 days in the entire 2 years. Why? Cause I love it. So how can I still play?

Easy. I don't do the shit that I hate. Screw Power Play. Screw CQC. Screw killing other players for Shits and Giggles. Screw all those other things I don't like. Instead I do ONLY the things I like, and the things I want to do. Only have a hour or two, I would race around in a Buggy or Blast ships in a Nav beacon. Or take a couple of missions or trades, then log off wherever I was and continue another time.

If you can't see the enjoyment, maybe it isn't a full time game for you. Maybe you need to get deeper into the history. The Original Elite is available on the Frontier Store for Free. Give that a Spin, who knows, you might like it. Maybe pick up a Novel or two. Maybe read back to the original Galnet Articles on the Website. Or check out the Forum Archives to see some of the history that was discussed.

Or, just continue doing what you are doing. Whatever. Heres to another 100 hours. Fly Safe Cmdr. If THAT game you mentioned ever comes back, let me know. Sounds interesting.

Hear hear, brother Loriath!

Ah yes, we are all allowed a rant, it clears the pipes

May I suggest that you adopt a group of players that you can meet up with, socialise (Get insanely drunk) and generally have a great time with.

They should be intelligent, fearless, honourable, pursuant of justice and be mostly human. (Nothing like the A-Team idiots that I fly with)

You could be astounded how the game changes with the right people engaged..

Stick with it CMDR, we all hit a wall, just got to plough through it now and again..

o7 Dawg

I can agree with almost everything the op says, but may I suggest Eve: Valkyrie, or maybe one of those nostalgia consoles with Galaxia on it, if you are looking for an arcade shooter to beat and move on from in 20 hours.

PS. come back to ED in about 3-4 years and see what it's like then - I have high expectations.

You should take a thorough look at eve.

To fly the larger ships there to a real beneficial degree you where looking at at least 4 years of game time.

It's simple for me: if I don't like the game I don't play it (anymore). I like Elite...

ballantos wrote:I've put about 100 hours into this game, and I'm still enjoying myself. But I think that's enough time for a few little rants to build up, and if you'll forgive me the presumption, I'm going to post them in public.

I've put several thousand hours in, so hopefully you'll also forgive me the presumption of retorting...

ballantos wrote:First, oh mah garsh, this game is slow. It requires far too much time investment to get anywhere, and if ever a method is uncovered of shortening the time requirement, Frontier removes it. I doubt I'll ever experience the best of the later stages of play because I'm not committed to playing this game for 2000 hours.

Well given that ED has no actual end, there aren't actually any "later stages of play". People think it's the big ships, but that simply isn't the case, ED is something you play because you enjoy playing ED, not to complete it, in this aspect it is more akin to a simulator. It does take time, if you do not want to commit that time then that is a perfectly acceptable choice for you, but not a reason to change the game.

ballantos wrote:The worst thing is that it seems like the player base is at least partially to blame for this. My perception is that some people want this to be a life simulator, where everything is as realistic as possible, and everyone has to struggle to get ahead because that's what life is like. I want a video game. Also, I want to move on to other video games at some point instead of pouring my entire soul into this one.

People want it to realistically represent what it would be like to be an independent pilot trying to make a living, this is the whole basis of the game. Just because it is a game, it doesn't mean it shouldn't be realistic, Elite has never been a quick pew pew game. There is of course nothing stopping anyone from playing other games as well, I know I play other games as well, but if you want a game that you can say you've finished and then move on then potentially ED is not the game for you.

ballantos wrote:It doesn't help that much of the game is just not very interesting. The bubble is enormous but relentlessly generic. I long for a richer bubble. No station or planetary base has a story of any kind. All that changes from place to place are the station/base model and the services offered there. No mission has any sort of story, and never asks for anything interesting. Everything is relentlessly bland.

There are plenty of stories, we are just not part of them. You need to remember that we are not the hero in ED, we are not even particularly important or notable, yes station controllers are nice to us if get our rep up, but only in the same way as a hotel receptionist is nice to you if you go to the same hotel enough. The bubble is generic, but as anyone who does a lot of business travel will testify generic is what you get, all airports are the same, all hotels are the same, etc...

ballantos wrote:Combat is kinda fun, but I haven't gone all in on it yet. To really enjoy it, you either need a specialized ship that is good for nothing else (like an Eagle or a Vulture), in which case it's your second ship, or you need an extraordinarily expensive ship, like a Python or Anaconda, that does everything well. I haven't amassed enough assets to have a second well-heeled ship, and certainly, the big boats are out of reach. Keep in mind, I've been playing for 100 hours.

Simply not true, take the Cobra III, an excellent cheep multipurpose ship, good for trading, combat, and exploration.

ballantos wrote:What I really want, what I long for, is for this game to be a successor to Escape Velocity and not Elite. I'm pretty sure EV was heavily inspired by Elite in the first place, but it made some changes that Elite: Dangerous sorely needs. Namely, that while it was still difficult to pull yourself out of shuttle poverty, it wasn't nearly so time consuming; the in-game universe was overflowing with personality and backstory; and there were lots of story mission threads, with mutually exclusive paths.

ED is what ED is, if it's not what you want then that is not actually the games fault, there are lots of things in life that are not what we want. Now that is not too say that there are not a lot of things wrong and that improvements can't be made, ED still has a lot that it needs too get right, and still has a long way to go, but it also has a 10 year development plan.

ballantos wrote:Set THAT game in this stunning space simulator engine. Work on THAT, instead of tirelessly searching for things that players were enjoying and nerfing them for no discernible reason other than that LIFE is HARD, so our games should be too!

Is that true? I've been playing since launch and as far as I can see the only nerfs I have seen is to the easy money loopholes, which brings me back to an earlier point that as there is no end game and therefore no real reason for making easy money.

ballantos wrote:Okay, now that's out of my system. Have a nice day.

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I too find a good rant very cathartic.

No game is going to be a fit for everyone and it does seem that they want to be put on rails and have an arcade experience with the same expansive depth of E:D.

When I first started playing, E:D was terribly daunting but that was also the appeal of it. It promised more freedom than we've ever been given and that freedom includes the freedom to make mistakes. Getting fined for that failed delivery, nearly running out of fuel, struggling for enough credits to cover insurance for that inevitable demise. It all locks into your memory and experiences with E:D.

All games are a time sink to one degree or another and the larger the scope, the more time is needed to see a significant result. Yes, E:D takes time and I really believe anything worthwhile shouldn't have an easy path to victory. I think that's partially why I've shunned the make easy money videos and guides and worked my own path. There's a lot of content that I've yet to experience and I'm okay with that because I relish the awe and wonderment of seeing it for the first time. If I see the Anaconda pass by, I imagine the crew of my ship looking on and saying, "isn't that a beaut?" I imagine them in a world that they have to make a living in and these stories make each station and each encounter considerably less generic. There's no scripted game that will surpass what you can imagine for yourself.

Personally, a hundred hours in is far too soon to give up but I guess people find entertainment in different ways. E:D might not be their cup of tea.